Point/Counterpoint - What does ESPN's "Outside the Lines" segment mean for future of PSU football?
Welcome to the first installment of Point/Counterpoint this season here on Laschout.com. In this article we have chosen two well known and intelligent Penn State football fans to express their opinions on one particular topic. These fans, while both being ardent followers of all things Penn State related, generally have slightly differing opinions regarding the state of the football program and the direction that they would like to see the program go.
Point/Counterpoint gives these two "regular" PSU fans an open forum to speak their minds and express their opinions without reservation. Each guest blogger here on Laschout has been given the following topic to write about and they have been given free reign to "blast away" as they see fit.
The topic that has been given to the guest bloggers is the following... What does ESPN's "Outside the Lines" segment mean for future of PSU football?
The first guest blogger will be the well known message board poster Puz31. Puz31 is generally thought to be more "moderate" or pro PSU in his opinions but has shown and open mind to opposing viewpoints and is considered one of the most reasonable and level headed posters in the Penn State web community. Here is what Puz31 had to say...
ESPN may have caused more damage to the Penn State Football program than fans believe with the showing of “Outside the Lines”. There are multiple negatives that may result from the show, both short term and long term.
The short term effects may already be occurring. PSU verbal commit Derrick Thomas’ mother is very hesitant to send her son to a school that is “out of control.” Mrs. Thomas appears to have always wanted her son to attend Maryland over Penn State and the airing of the show may give her the extra boost to send her son to their in-state school.
Other current PSU verbal commits appear to not be concerned with the problems. Anyone following PSU knows that these problems occurred in the past and they were a result of the players involved, not the program specifically. Recruiting may not be terribly affected, but it looks like “Outside the Lines” is raising some eyebrows.
While recruiting may not be a main concern from the show, I believe that the overall result from “Outside the Lines” will be the support for Joe Paterno. Anyone who watched the show can say that Paterno did a terrible job in answering any questions about the off-field issues with the program.
There were two ways to answer the questions in the interview. Joe did it the wrong way with the constant talk of “ESPN is on a witch-hunt”. Joe also could have answered the questions the way Graham Spanier had. Spanier choose to answer everything truthfully. He did not back away from any of the questions. Spanier was well composed and was prepared for the questions. The president of the university may have gained support as an after-effect of the show.
The future of Penn State Football is in the hands of Graham Spanier. Prior to “OTL,” the majority of PSU fans had the belief that Joe Paterno should retire when he wants, due to the great things he has done for the program and university. Support is now growing strongly for those who believe Joe should hang it up. Spanier may now have the support he needs to get Joe to retire (and look outside the program for a head coach), and signs are clearly pointing in the direction that 2008 will be the final year for Joe Paterno as head coach of Penn State.
The second guest blogger for this installment of Point/Counterpoint is the Fight on State dot com TAP poster scarf. Scarf is known to hold very strong opinions regarding PSU that generally lean in the direction viewed by some as the "All is Well" crowd. But scarf, like his fellow guest blogger Puz31, has an open mind to different opinions and accepts thoughts from those who do not necessarily usually share his viewpoints. This is what Scarf had to say regarding the question, What does ESPN's "Outside the Lines" segment mean for future of PSU football?...
Some of Penn State’s most ardent fans (read Joe Paterno fans) would like you to think that the “Outside the Lines” report on our player’s recent legal woes is nothing more then a ratings driven media witch-hunt on a great man and the program he founded. In some respects, they might even be correct. Whether ESPN had an agenda does not matter, what matters is the how this segment will shape the future of Penn State football. These same fans will also have you believe that this is a “non-story” and will eventually blow over, and PSU will continue to be a thug-ridden mediocre program.
Unfortunately for them, this segment will have deep reaching impacts on the future landscape of our program. While we as PSU fans have an in depth knowledge of our own program and the political players that run the show, outsiders do not. The Outside the Lines segment introduced these people to the one and only Graham Spanier. The man who is universally hated among our own fanbase has now stepped into the public spotlight on this issue. In the left corner, a man who has built this program up to elite status, only to watch it slip away under the tutelage of his incompetent son, and in the right corner a man didn’t have the balls to get rid of Paterno 4 years ago.
The winner of this epic bout will inevitably be Spanier, but the question is when will we see him strike his finishing blow? Ladies and gentlemen, you are seeing the jabs starting to fly now from Spanier, and it appears he’s gearing up for the crescendo. I have no doupt in my mind that Spanier played a key roll in providing secret OJA documents to ESPN, and pointing them in the direction of some juicy tidbits. Spanier has been in a power struggle for years with Paterno, as both men are arrogant and egotistical to think that they’re irreplaceable. Alas, Spanier has a tool that Paterno wishes he had, the media. After years of abusing the media and forcing them to suffer through his snide sardonic remarks, he has very few friends to turn to within the press.
Where does this leave the future of Penn State? While the OTL report was not the first blow in this fight, it will certainly not be the last and on reflection we will look back on this as the catalyst that began unraveling the intricately wound tapestry of the Paterno legacy. Public opinion is starting to sway from Paterno’s corner to the newcomer in the national arena, Spanier. His poise and calm answers during the OTL segment portrayed a man in control, his stoic demeanor played out convincingly on screen that it is he that is in control of this process, and he alone will provide the final say. Joe on the other hand appeared so alarmed and distressed in front Steve Delsohn that it flashed back memories of Joe’s infamous potty run at Ohio State. The man that once endeared millions now looks like a paranoid schizophrenic, who thinks the world is out to get him. He thinks the world is out to get him, and maybe it is, but only because he’s become such a disgrace and embarrassment.
If you don't think this is having an impact on our team, one only needs to look at recruiting. Derrick Thomas, and now Jason Ankrah are both taking looks around after seemingly being locked up. That may only be the tip of the iceberg as well when you consider that the laws of probability point to more of our players getting in trouble and being charged with felonies. Its ashame to see good athletes repulsed by the current state of our affairs, and only one man can be held responsible for that. While some will tell you that Paterno can’t baby-sit all 85 scholarship players and dozens more walk-ons, but that gives no excuse to the complacency he has shown when it comes to punishment. You can take the boy out of the hood, but you cant take the hood out of the boy, and Paterno cant understand that. Instead of being a hands on coach and an active part of the team, he chooses to work from home most days and let Jay and Tom run the show. If you wonder why there is a sudden up surging in serious legal issues, don't blame our own captains for lack of leadership, blame Captain Ahab for letting the ship sink over his own incredibly selfish desires.
Until Joe is removed from office, Penn State will continue to be dragged in the mud by our own thug’s actions and an overzealous media anxious to rip apart our once proud program. Time has come for Joe to go, and fear not sheeple the end is near. ESPN did us all a great service in running this piece, because it will send the man who built this program into retirement before he destroys it any more then he already has.
Anyone interested in becoming a guest blogger for the Point/Counterpoint feature please feel free to email us at Laschout95@gmail.com.
Us casual fans tend to over-analyze things. Joe and Spanier may indeed be locked in a power struggle. But one thing that Spanier will not do is to purposefully play that out in public. To say that he would is to ignore past public comments by the man. The University guards its public image most preciously and Spanier would not publicly devalue one of the University's greatest assets to a national television audience. To suggest that Spanier's comments on an ESPN expose were a pointed blow at Joe Paterno in a political power struggle displays a patented lack of understanding of the Penn State culture.
And to think Spanier doesn't know exactly what hes doing shows ignorance on your part. Joe is forcing this into the public by his exceedingly selfish actions. If Joe wouldn't be such an arrogant asshole Spanier would be able to take care of this more subtly.
Spanier knows exactly what he's doing. He's just not doing what you think he is.
I agree PIV. Spanier is not going to try to publicly humiliate Joe. And GS had the right answers on the OTL piece. I do not understand the hatred toward GS by some. He is an administrator. That is it.
Joe? He did not present himself well in that OTL piece.
Once the season starts and if PSU starts winning (I believe they will do A LOT of that this year) and no more kids get in trouble this story will fade away. It will also depend on how ESPN handles it when they televise PSU games. They ran the story and control how often it is brought up on its station.
If we claim winning will cure all of this, then what does that say about the program? It says, naturally, that winning is all that is important at PSU.
I don't think that's accurate at all. The Grand Experiment does not describe a race to win at all costs. As a New York Times piece described it, the Grand Experiment is Paterno's longstanding plan for success on the field without academic or disciplinary compromise.
To suggest that winning will fix everything would seem to address only the first part of that plan.
I think it's unwise to regard the Grand Experiment as something you can apply at your convenience or when it seems to be going well, only to be forgotten otherwise.
The ambiguity surrounding the program currently cannot be clarified simply by winning.
There is a difference between ambiguity and forgetting about the OTL story. Baker and Taylor and Bell are gone. They personally were accountable for the majority of the arrests/charges in the last 18 months.
So now, if Penn State goes out and wins 10 or 11 games, Joe will be praised by the majority of the national media for cleaning up the program and then winning 10/11 games with a solid chance at a BCS game. The OTL article will be a subplot to everything, but most will use it to show how PSU overcame that AND stayed clean while winning.
Will there be ambiguity after that? How do you fire a head coach after 2 BCS bowl games in 4 years, at least 3 bowl wins, and 4 straight top 25 finishes and kicking off the trouble makers?
I dont disagree with you Wick, but if this scenerio plays out, and it is VERY likely, then what's the next step?
The fact that Joe had his best press conference in years shows even Joe has taken OTL seriously. Joe was civil with the media. He learned the lesson that the media can hurt him.
You can probably thank Guido for that. There are some people in the Athletic Department that are media savvy. Not many, but some.
I don't think Spanier purposely tried to make Joe look bad on OTL. Joe took care of that all by himself. Joe was clearly prepped for the recent press conference and was prepared to receive any and all questions. I just can't believe that he wasn't similarly prepared for the OTL interview. That was a huge mistake by Guido et al and it hurt both Joe and PSU immensely.
When I think of 17 I touch myself.
I don't know what sparked this, but it is funny as hell!!
Maybe it's just me but I think the title of this thread should read:
Point/Point "two opinions same result"
I don't see how either of the article differ from one another, they basically say the same thing, they are just arranged differently
I like the idea of a thread like this but please next time pick two opinions that are distinctly different
Just a guess, but I think if you read the lead in to article, one writer is typically pro-PSU and other on the opposite side of center. Might be something to read into when a kool aid guy is less than rosey.
it's not about the kool aid (which is the most played out term on any website, apparently if you like anything about the program you are a sucker)
but my point was that if you have a thread called point/counter point you should atleast have differing opinions the statements made by both authors are basically the same and what is the point of that
this is almost as bad as watching fox news
From his press conference, I think Joe was really stung by the OTL show. For years, he has surrounded himself with people who are above all loyal. He has pretty much had his way with the local media, especially after Heather Dinich's departure. It must have been a real a slap in the face to have somebody else excercising complete editorial control over his comments on such a subject. I'm sure if somebody had been able to show this to him 20 years ago he never would have wanted to end his tenure amid this kind of exposure.